Curse

Konig Des Todes · Oct 07, 2009, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Note From the Writer:

Arachnia is only directly found in the gw.dat file – and as such, may not even be able to be considered canon lore. Even so, this concept has interested me ever since I searched for the Realm of Torment landmarks that are mentioned in the gw.dat, and even if Arachnia is not canon, I want to explore the possibility of it being canon.

Now, since Arachnia is most likely a tossed concept, at the very least, this could have been their plans before they switched to the whole “Elder Dragons” thing – and of my hypotheses, none of this is really canceled out by known lore.

Arachnia and the Realm of Torment "Landmarks."

There is only one source of Arachnia’s name, the Realm of Torment landmarks. The landmarks that relate to Arachnia are: Arachnia Plateau, Harvestman's Lair, The Spider's Heart, and Vale of Shadows. These four landmarks all either have a reference to Arachnia directly, or to spider-like things.

Aside from that, the Gate of Fear and the Domain of Fear are riddled with spider legs and spider webs. Also, I have noted that all four aforementioned landmarks are in the Domain of Fear. Two of which are rather close to the Gate of Secrets exit in the area. It seems to me, that when/if Arachnia existed, the now Domain of Fear *and possibly the Domain of Secrets* was its main home/realm – not as it is now for the Domain of Secrets though.

Landmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arachnia Plateau

A field of soft, leathery soil broken up into rolling plates, like the palm of one's hand, or the underbelly of a spider. It gives only slightly when you walk on it, and makes a soft sighing noise.

The image is only a portion of the Arachnia Plateau. The whole of it all looks like all 8 legs of a spider, and the exit to the Gate of Secrets looks a lot like a mouth – though in the wrong position if it were a spider. Although I will not say this is Arachnia, this location could have been made in her image during the domain’s creation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spider’s Heart

Glowing radiance of evil at the heart of Arachnia. Said to be the remains of a now-dead spider-god, older than Abaddon and the Five True Gods themselves.

Right next to the Arachnia Plateau is the Heart of Arachnia – or the best guess of the location. The location is believed to be the Heart of Arachnia due to an unusual glow on the map and the ground being lighter in a near-circular area. The glowing of the location fits with the “Glowing radiance” of the description. This is also the singular mention of Arachnia as a god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harvestman’s Lair

A flooded cavern filled with remains of the gods of insectoid beings. No native spiders are ever seen, but there is the scurry of thin legs and something made all those webs.

The Harvestman’s Lair easily continues the spider theme of the Domain of Fear and Arachnia. Along with that, it is a cavern “filled with remains of the gods of insectoid beings” – this imples there were more than just Arachnia as a insectoid god long ago. But more on this later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domain of Fear

Repository of fears of primitive men at the time Abaddon was imprisoned. May indicate the power of a previous, spider or dryder-like race in the world.

A repository (a place where things are deposited) of human fears from over a thousand years ago – most of which is spider-like. Having spider-like things in an area of fear is not uncommon due to a common fear of spiders (arachnophobia) which was created through fearing deadly spiders and their venom. But the second part is interesting. The area may indicate ancient power of a spider or dryder-like race. It is possibly just ancestors of Spiders of Dryders (or both), but also possibly Arachnia and her original creations. Or perhaps it is all of the above.

Arachnia’s link to Abaddon

With knowing that Arachnia is a dead god, and that the Domain of Fear is at least based off of it, we can assume some more things about it. In addition to how the Gate/Domain of Fear look, and with the landmarks in there being mostly related to Arachnia (possibly all the Arachnia landmarks are in the Domain of Fear, and I have yet to spot the rest), as I said, it is highly possible that the Domain of Fear was Arachnia’s home. Now, another thing to look at is the Apostate. Everyone who has looked into Abaddon and lore should know the quest reward dialogue from The Apostate. For fast reference, here it is (and I bolded the important part, and underlined the very important part):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apostate

Thank you for protecting me. And for your help, I shall now fulfill my end of the bargain.

You may have wondered why I was being chased so vehemently by Abaddon's hunters, and I believe it is as simple as this: I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he may be supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.

Use this knowledge for your benefit.

This quote gives us two things. First, there were gods before him. Plural, implying generations or at least a whole pantheon of gods before his pantheon (Dwayna, Melandru, Grenth, Balthazar, Lyssa, and Abaddon). Second, knowing that Abaddon supplanted a god before him, and the Domain of Fear is based on Arachnia, and not to mention that Arachnia is dead, one can assume that Abaddon’s predecessor was Arachnia. Other then the given evidence, it should also be pointed out that the Apostate works in the Gate/Domain of Fear (he can be found in the Gate of Fear, and the quest by him deals within the Domain of Fear). So there are several supports for Arachnia being Abaddon’s predecessor.

“Insectoid Gods” – Former Pantheon, or a new(old) one?

Returning to the Harvestman’s Lair description, the area is filled with “remains of the gods of insectoid beings”. Now, this does not mean the gods are insectoid, but just that they were worshiped by insectoid beings. However, looking at the area, they can only be limbs of insectoid beings, and since those remains are of gods, the gods must have been insectoid as well. What connection do these have to the Six Gods – if any – is still unknown. However, due to Arachnia being a spider god, one can easily link him/her/it to being one of these gods.

Now, there are a good number of theories link Dhuum to be an insectoid god (seen here). This landmark states that there were gods – plural. Meaning there was a pantheon (or part of a pantheon) of insectoid gods. This means these gods were connected to Arachnia, and if Dhuum truly is insectoid like some theories believe, then it could be that these insectoid gods were a previous pantheon of the True Gods. Add in the Apostate's words of gods before Abaddon, there is now even more support for a set of predecessors before the known true gods - and now their generic looks. Which further supports Arachnia being Abaddon’s unnamed predecessor – with Dhuum being Grenth’s predecessor (and now we have reason enough to believe that there may be no more than four unnamed insectoid predecessors of the other gods).

If, however, Dhuum is not insectoid in nature, then this could in fact be leading to a second pantheon of gods.

Arachnia as the God(dess) of Knowledge

This is probably the hardest bit to think about. We don’t know about Arachnia so we cannot say if there was any personality trait that led to the idea of a god(dess) of knowledge. However, there is an idea that was stated to me by draxynnic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The other side of it - the knowledge aspect that seems fundamental to the role - does work quite well, however. Think how many metaphors there are about gaining and controlling knowledge that involve webs...

However, there is another explanation for the god’s role and connection with knowledge…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate of Fear

The Gate of Fear is one of the great locks erected by the Five Gods to imprison Abaddon, weakened by the passage of the ages and the machinations of the God of Secrets. Past this gate lies a great plane inhabited by the primal fears of early man, and swept by the winds of panic.

"A great plane inhabited by the primal fears of early man" – Being a god(dess) of knowledge, one knows the various kinds of fears there can be. It could be that Arachia wasn’t so much the God(dess) of Knowledge, but instead a “God(dess) of Fear” – through knowledge, Arachnia controlled fear. Eventually, the knowledge of fear would go to Abaddon and would be spread out to encompass general knowledge (though the darker side of knowledge, at least in his later millennium of existence).

Arachnia as a City

Although the main thought is that Arachnia was the God of Knowledge before Abaddon, there was a thought brought to my attention (i.e., not my own) that Arachnia was a city. This thought was given by the description of The Spider’s Heart – which to that person sounds like a "heart of a city." I personally disagree as the same description calls Arachnia a dead spider god. I only included this for vanity's sake.

Arachnia's Creations

Every god seems to have their own individual race. Dwayna had the harpies (if the legends are to be believed), Abaddon has Margonites, etc. etc. What did Arachnia have? Well, if there were a group of insectoid gods, then I don’t believe them all to be from her. However, based on the Domain of Fear’s description, and the area pertaining mostly to Arachnia, I’d have to say the Dryders were her own personal creation - possibly the Torment Claws as well. Now, they are under the control of Dhuum it seems (with a few in the Domain of Fear – possibly unaligned, possibly controlled by Abaddon). Why is this the case? My thoughts would be that they decided to follow the last insectoid god, as those gods where “theirs”, which would be Dhuum.

Giant Spider in Nightfall Jahai

This giant spider like being can be found in the southwest corner of Nightfall Jahai (a quest leads to this spot). When staring at a part of it which seems to have burst open (the pink inner portion), one can see that it moves back and forth – thus, is living. As it is living, clearly not Arachnia itself. But possibly another insectoid god imprisoned? Or perhaps it is just a powerful creation of one of those gods. What connection, if any, this living but seemingly trapped creature has to Arachnia or even to Abaddon is completely unknown.

For all we know, this could easily be Dhuum himself (again, assuming he is indeed an insectoid god).

Generations of the Gods

Based on the above information, I believe that the Six Gods have had their power passed down from “generation” to “generation” – that is, from predecessor to usurper. Whether willingly or not on the whole pantheon’s part - for instance, Grenth’s and Kormir’s Ascension into godhood may have been a plan by the other gods, however, the other 5 gods we know of (excluding Dhuum)? It may not have been volunteeringly accepted by the other gods – but if what we know of Dhuum and Arachnia is true and the past generation included the two and more gods like themselves, then they wouldn’t care of the fall of their godly brothers and sisters.

I believe that the current Six Gods (not including Kormir – instead including Abaddon) are the most recent full generation (Kormir being the first of her own generation) of gods, and at least the third generation (meaning there are four generations total). I only say this because I don’t believe that the world could have been created by evil beings. So in terms of generations, of what we know, the gods could have been “good” overtaken by “evil” overtaken by "neutral" (I won’t call the current gods good by what we know of them…).

akio pwns · Oct 07, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

just one phrase i want to say: that makes total sense, and your are a genius for combining all of this info.

/bow

x_blade_x · Oct 07, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

im fairly certain my brain just exploded.

Don't forget to consider the fact that you might be thinking too hard about it.

xxx wraith xxx · Oct 07, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

you just outsmarted Anet...the story is perfect...well done.

the ruloes · Oct 07, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

This makes good sense. Keep in mind that even some of the earliest official lore, for instance the prophecies handbook, states that the gods once walked with the humans on earth, then at "the exodus" they left the physical plane. This could be interpreted as the gods being humans, then simultaneously overcoming the previous gods, and leaving the world to take their throne.

Although this wouldn't match up with some of the divine acts they supposedly performed previous to the exodus, such as bestowing magic upon the world or creating the bloodstones. At the same time, the same lore states that these were the gods that created the world, which can't be true if there were gods before them. Perhaps the events that the gods caused before the exodus were actually performed by the previous gods, then those god's records erased, similar to Abaddon?

But on the other hand, if we get to the point that we stop believing what the lore says, we're essentially writing our own fiction.

Another interesting question - if each god creates a race of beings in their own image, then who created the forgotten? Who created the mursaat?

Zodiac Meteor · Oct 07, 2009, 03:54 PM // 15:54

What does one make of Dreadspawn Maw? Thy fuglyness barfes the.

Beware Domain of Anguish, Halloween shall use the as stronghold.

The 8th · Oct 07, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Good stuff. I wonder though about the dryders and the circumstances that lead them to Dhuum. If they did indeed began as minions of Arachnia I wonder why Dhuum was forced to replace his minions with them, that is assuming he had minions of his own and they weren't taken by Grenth in his ascension. If He was an insectoid god and always in possesion of the dryders, I wonder then what Arachnia's chosen race consisted of, or if perhaps Dryders functioned for Arachia's generation as the Forgotten do for the current pantheon, a sort of divine police force for the gods as a whole.

Anyways I'm going off on a tangent. Very nicely assembled bit of theory there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

Another interesting question - if each god creates a race of beings in their own image, then who created the forgotten? Who created the mursaat?

In the few bits of fluff that trickle out from GW2 it's being hinted more and more that humans, and possibly even the current pantheon of gods, are not native to Tyria. If humans and their gods come from somewhere outside Tyria via the Mists, there's no way of knowing how many other creatures did the same. Therefore there's really no telling if any of the other races (Murssat, Seers, etcetera) are native or drifted in through the Mists. As far as the Forgotten go I assume they came in with the current pantheon. Whether they where created in Tyria or brought along with the gods when/if they arrived remains to be seen.

Nihilim Dhiamara · Oct 07, 2009, 05:43 PM // 17:43

very nice, this all makes sence

Arghore · Oct 07, 2009, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Rather liked this read, and was allready impressed by the former write up about this... im not to amazed by other 'gods' seeing gods on earth were replaced by other gods every so often
(mostly depending on the dominant 'race' at the time) ..

Something that struck me as somewhat of a backing for a previous cort of gods is the loading screen for The Great temple of Baltazar:

If you look closely you can see that in the mountains on the foreground there is a previous statue which to me looks like something that could be a 'god' image ... esp. the face looks somewhat Arachnia like, though the rest of the body looks more Batlike, this could ofcourse also be because the leggs in a 2D survace form a batlike structure (?) ... Which ever god this was, assuming the new statue is Baltazar, the statue in the foreground could well be of a goddes prior to Baltazar ... it strikes me as Arachnia though somehow...

Then if you are to considder how the mission reward description says: the power cannot be destroyed but it can be absorbed... basically what happened with Kormir ... it could well be that the Human 'gods', found a way to defeat the Insect gods and absorb their power, to become gods themselves ...

----------------------------
As for your insects and Dhuum / Arachnia minions ... i would like to point out that there is a difference between insects and spiders ... one of the very distict is insects have 6 legs and Spiders have 8 ... now if one looks at dryders and then at spiders ... although Dryders do have 8 legs, they mainly have 6 legs and 2 arms ... where as the spiders truely have 8 legs... meaning, Dryders as such could be considdered insect minions for Dhuum... where Arachnids spiders, would be considdered minions for Arachnid ...

When looking at these creatures powers, then what is striking is, that most arachnids are Ranger ... while most Dryders are Necrotic (some are fire too) ... meaning, if the absorbing of powers would be the case for the Humans to absorb the power of Slain Insect Gods (the ancient gods perhaps?) ... then i would think that Arachnid was Melandru's predecessor (from ranger) ... and Dhuum was Grenth's predecessor ...

-----------------------
Another creature that is very predominant in the Prophecies campains is the Devourer and this would be a good creature to have a 'god' like form too, tbh, the concept art pretty much looks like the Devourer god ... (skill mostly Ranger or Warrior)

Then there is another group that has 4 legs (the devourer has 4 to 6 legs, depending if you call its pincers leggs or arms) ... the Scarabs, they excist almost in the same area's as the Devourers and often spawn close to one another, one could assume they live in symbioses with eachother ...

---------------------
Then there is a large ammount of Insects dubt creatures living on Elona.. they fall appart in Beetles, Lance, Termites ... the naming convention on this Continent doesnt seem very strickt though ... The Thorn beetle Queen, looks more like a desert form of Devourer ... The Dune beetle Queen, looks more like a Spider Subspecies... Both are named to be beetles though ?! ...

Most beatles look very distict, but perhaps the hard shell on those creatures meant they were classified as Beetle, while they are actually of a different species all together, just have a hard shell cuz of the desert climate? Then the Termites, these have allot of similarity with the Scarab, also walking on 4 legs with small bodies ...

Last to mention are the Mandragor ... first appear in Elona but also found in Char homelands (which is not to weird as they are one land mass) ... these too have a high variaty in appearance, some are more insect like, while others are more creature like ... tbh. their appearance almost makes them look astough they were formed from combining other creatures found on Elona/Charr homelands, perhaps in a time when our currupting 'friend' Kralkatorrik flew from south to the north ?! which could be why they identify with eachother and from a group, which led the Elonia's to name them of the same species ... but as mentioned before, their naming convention strikes me as a bit odd ..

Konig Des Todes · Oct 07, 2009, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

This makes good sense. Keep in mind that even some of the earliest official lore, for instance the prophecies handbook, states that the gods once walked with the humans on earth, then at "the exodus" they left the physical plane. This could be interpreted as the gods being humans, then simultaneously overcoming the previous gods, and leaving the world to take their throne.

The current gods (Kormir aside) were gods before the humans existed - but not by much - according to Jeff in a recent interview. Not to mention that Abaddon had to be a god before the Exodus since his acts were before the exodus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

At the same time, the same lore states that these were the gods that created the world, which can't be true if there were gods before them.

Actually, the reason why the gods couldn't have created the world is for a different reason. The Elder Dragons are older than the gods. If we took out the Elder Dragons, it could have been that the current pantheon (minus Kormir, of course), created Tyria, but not other worlds. While considering the Elder Dragons, then this world had to be created before the gods were gods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

Another interesting question - if each god creates a race of beings in their own image, then who created the forgotten? Who created the mursaat?

Personally, I always figured Balthazar created the humans (what other god of the 6 would create a greedy race) and the Charr. It doesn't have to be in their image, just in their personality. I think the Mursaat, Forgotten, and Seer were created by the previous pantheon. And the Dwarves by the Great Dwarf (who could have been a part of a previous pantheon - as one of the insectoid gods or even before, or the "stand out" of the insectoid gods (that is, the Great Dwarf was the one god who wasn't an insectoid in that pantheon)).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

What does one make of Dreadspawn Maw? Thy fuglyness barfes the.

At first, I was going to link the abombination of the Dreadspawn Maw to this group of insectoid gods. However, I remembered this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raukus

When a strong malignant force chokes the lands it becomes a breeding ground for demons. The Stygian Veil is a vile and hideous place. It is strongest and most prolific birthing place for such monsters; a creature known as the Dreadspawn Maw lords over it. This hideous beast is protected by veritable horde of half-formed nightmares and greater demons called Stygian Lords.

[/quote=Nightfall Manuscripts]Demons are more than creatures of the Mists—they are made from the Mists themselves, bits of etheric matter that have gained malignant sentience and power. Whether they appear as monstrous humanoids, bestial abominations, or radically inhuman horrors, they share many of the same aspirations: the strong consume or dominate the weak, reveling in their feasts and victimization.[/quote]It is highly possible no one created the Dreadspawn Maw except for the Mists themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 8th

Good stuff. I wonder though about the dryders and the circumstances that lead them to Dhuum. If they did indeed began as minions of Arachnia I wonder why Dhuum was forced to replace his minions with them, that is assuming he had minions of his own and they weren't taken by Grenth in his ascension. If He was an insectoid god and always in possesion of the dryders, I wonder then what Arachnia's chosen race consisted of, or if perhaps Dryders functioned for Arachia's generation as the Forgotten do for the current pantheon, a sort of divine police force for the gods as a whole.

I find it highly likely that Dhuum's original forces consisted of Titans (twisted souls), Dream Riders (ghosts), Grasps and Scythes of Chaos (mesmer)/Wrathful Storms (the last three can be seen as insect like).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 8th

In the few bits of fluff that trickle out from GW2 it's being hinted more and more that humans, and possibly even the current pantheon of gods, are not native to Tyria. If humans and their gods come from somewhere outside Tyria via the Mists, there's no way of knowing how many other creatures did the same. Therefore there's really no telling if any of the other races (Murssat, Seers, etcetera) are native or drifted in through the Mists. As far as the Forgotten go I assume they came in with the current pantheon. Whether they where created in Tyria or brought along with the gods when/if they arrived remains to be seen.

By wording the Forgotten are not native. And it seems that humans can easily be native - Jeff says they come from the south - further than Cantha - so it is possible they arrived/were created near the same time as the Forgotten arrived.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

Something that struck me as somewhat of a backing for a previous cort of gods is the loading screen for The Great temple of Baltazar:
(best screenshot i could take, i know there is an art piece of it floating around but finding that will take me to long)

-snip image-

If you look closely you can see that in the mountains on the foreground there is a previous statue which to me looks like something that could be a 'god' image ... esp. the face looks somewhat Arachnia like, though the rest of the body looks more Batlike, this could ofcourse also be because the leggs in a 2D survace form a batlike structure (?) ... Which ever god this was, assuming the new statue is Baltazar, the statue in the foreground could well be of a goddes prior to Baltazar ... it strikes me as Arachnia though somehow...

Then if you are to considder how the mission reward description says: the power cannot be destroyed but it can be absorbed... basically what happened with Kormir ... it could well be that the Human 'gods', found a way to defeat the Insect gods and absorb their power, to become gods themselves ...

Funny, that image was connected to Menzies (look here, and now it is connected to Arachnia.

I think that's just your eyes fooling you and there isn't anything there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

As for your insects and Dhuum / Arachnia minions ... i would like to point out that there is a difference between insects and spiders ... one of the very distict is insects have 6 legs and Spiders have 8 ... now if one looks at dryders and then at spiders ... although Dryders do have 8 legs, they mainly have 6 legs and 2 arms ... where as the spiders truely have 8 legs... meaning, Dryders as such could be considdered insect minions for Dhuum... where Arachnids spiders, would be considdered minions for Arachnid ...

In Guild Wars, Arachnids are constantly put under the same category as Insects and Bugs. Hence the word insectoid. Also, you missed one thing. Insects have 6 limbs, not just 6 legs. Dryders have eight limbs and have been called spider-like. In fact, the Domain of Fear description says "spider or Dryder-like"

What you also miss is that there are two kinds of spiders with four legs. A scarab model, but they are still counted as spiders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

When looking at these creatures powers, then what is striking is, that most arachnids are Ranger ... while most Dryders are Necrotic (some are fire too) ... meaning, if the absorbing of powers would be the case for the Humans to absorb the power of Slain Insect Gods (the ancient gods perhaps?) ... then i would think that Arachnid was Melandru's predecessor (from ranger) ... and Dhuum was Grenth's predecessor ...

And there are 10 professions for Margonites, who are Abaddon's followers. There are monk, ranger, assassin and paragon spiders. This is a case of game mechanics, not lore, as I'm sure the idea of spiders was to have a ranged attacker.

Also, the gods themselves don't have professions, to be honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

-snip rest-

I didn't choose who the gods were, only that we have a spider god, Arachnia, and many believe Dhuum to have an insectoid appearance. Nothing links the Tyrian insects to these gods anyways, so this part is rather pointless, to be honest. Not to mention this is way off topic. I'm talking about gods, you're talking about insects and your complaints on them (so it seems).

Shasgaliel · Oct 08, 2009, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Very interesting thread.
I am just wondering regarding the possible link between Dhuum and Arachnia. For example Dryders due to their insectoid appearance might be a remnants of former Arachnia army. Apart from spider there are also fly-like remnants in Realm of Torment. We do not see many of this kind of creatures in a game though.

the ruloes · Oct 08, 2009, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Personally, I always figured Balthazar created the humans (what other god of the 6 would create a greedy race) and the Charr. It doesn't have to be in their image, just in their personality. I think the Mursaat, Forgotten, and Seer were created by the previous pantheon. And the Dwarves by the Great Dwarf (who could have been a part of a previous pantheon - as one of the insectoid gods or even before, or the "stand out" of the insectoid gods (that is, the Great Dwarf was the one god who wasn't an insectoid in that pantheon)).

This is going a wee bit away from the original topic, but who says that the great dwarf is/was a god?

In dwarf lore, there are two rivaling deities: The great dwarf and the great destroyer. The great dwarf created the dwarves, and is a very powerful and generous being, wanting only the best for the dwarves. The great destroyer is seen as an equally powerful being, except that it is everything that the great dwarf is not - it's greedy, evil, the lot. However in EotN it's revealed that the great destroyer is not a god at all, it is a general of the dragon primordus. So if the great destroyer isn't a god at all, who says that the great dwarf is?

Gmr Leon · Oct 08, 2009, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

So if the great destroyer isn't a god at all, who says that the great dwarf is?

The current lack of evidence to the contrary.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 09, 2009, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by the ruloes

However in EotN it's revealed that the great destroyer is not a god at all, it is a general of the dragon primordus.

While we do fight a real "Great Destroyer" - it isn't known that it is the same "Great Destroyer" as the one that the Great Dwarf fought.

It's a great Destroyer, but is it a being who's name has been stripped and replaced by a title of "Great Destroyer" as in a being of great destruction and not some being who is a greater version of a group of beings called "Destroyers"?

draxynnic · Oct 09, 2009, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I only say this because I don’t believe that the world could have been created by evil beings.

I disagree with this statement, for a couple of reasons. First, because it's perfectly plausible that a sadistic being (or group therof) could create a world or universe... as a playset in order to torment the inhabitants, or, if sufficiently powerful, even by accident.

Second, with the Elder Dragons and such, the GW universe has been starting to give me something of an antediluvian Lovecraft feel, with terrors from the past barely contained by gods (and spirits?) that may themselves be barely holding on to their sanity. Do we really need gods to have created the universe, or could we simply have a universe of unknown origin which happens to have given birth to powerful beings such as elder dragons and gods?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arghore

then i would think that Arachnid was Melandru's predecessor (from ranger)

That's possibly simply because they wanted spiders to be poisonous, and the simplest way was with Apply Poison. (It is curious that pretty much all spiders spit projectiles rather than simply being melee Rangers, though...)

That aside, though, primitive man had plenty in nature to fear, so if we take the hypothesis that none of the current gods were the original ones, it's possible that Melandru and Abaddon divvied up Arachnia's power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

The Elder Dragons are older than the gods.

Has this actually been stated? Implied, certainly, but ANet has given me the impression of being quite coy with the actual age of humanity and the gods. Both might turn out to be much older than we think - albeit maybe (likely, even, if they do turn out to be ancient) not on Tyria.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 09, 2009, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I disagree with this statement, for a couple of reasons. First, because it's perfectly plausible that a sadistic being (or group therof) could create a world or universe... as a playset in order to torment the inhabitants, or, if sufficiently powerful, even by accident.

Second, with the Elder Dragons and such, the GW universe has been starting to give me something of an antediluvian Lovecraft feel, with terrors from the past barely contained by gods (and spirits?) that may themselves be barely holding on to their sanity. Do we really need gods to have created the universe, or could we simply have a universe of unknown origin which happens to have given birth to powerful beings such as elder dragons and gods?

Hmmm, I think I'd like a Lovecraft kind of parallel in the general history. And I guess sadistic (which, by the way, neither Arachnia nor Dhuum are said to be sadistic - just evil and unjust, respectively) gods could have created the world for boredom or a playset of torment. But unless the world and races were massively changed, then I doubt it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Has this actually been stated? Implied, certainly, but ANet has given me the impression of being quite coy with the actual age of humanity and the gods. Both might turn out to be much older than we think - albeit maybe (likely, even, if they do turn out to be ancient) not on Tyria.

True that it hasn't been stated, but I somehow doubt that humans are over 9,000 years older than their appearance in Cantha - especially since the Forgotten were only 1,000 years older than the human's appearance in Cantha. And the (current) gods are just slightly older than the humans.

draxynnic · Oct 10, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Hmmm, I think I'd like a Lovecraft kind of parallel in the general history. And I guess sadistic (which, by the way, neither Arachnia nor Dhuum are said to be sadistic - just evil and unjust, respectively) gods could have created the world for boredom or a playset of torment. But unless the world and races were massively changed, then I doubt it.

Well, while the gods may not have created the world, they may certainly have done some serious terraforming - the world and races may well have been.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

True that it hasn't been stated, but I somehow doubt that humans are over 9,000 years older than their appearance in Cantha - especially since the Forgotten were only 1,000 years older than the human's appearance in Cantha. And the (current) gods are just slightly older than the humans.

They can be as old as ANet likes if they aren't native to Tyria... and even if they are, it's entirely possible that they could have remained in a primitive state for thousands of years before spreading to the rest of the world.

Steps_Descending · Nov 11, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 8th

In the few bits of fluff that trickle out from GW2 it's being hinted more and more that humans, and possibly even the current pantheon of gods, are not native to Tyria.

Where is this hinted? I feel I am missing some lore-y bits

Konig Des Todes · Nov 11, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Not sure where The 8th gets the humanity part (there is nothing to suggest them being native or not to Tyria), but for the gods:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Grubb

The gods predate the humans, but not by much.

Lore Interview Thread on Guru 2: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/...with-t832.html

Original interview:http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/09/0...s-2-interview/

Lord Jim · Nov 20, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

IMO Arachnia will be used as a foe in further Guild Wars campaigns. Maybe in GW2 expansions ( for example again in Elona , when we will have to kill Palawa Joko and Arachnia which allied with the Undead Lord as the supreme rulers of that part of world ) . Additionally, Elder Dragons, as the most powerful creatures in Tyria world ( so far.. ) might ressurect Arachnia as creature and pass to her some of their power, again creating a god.. . Well all of it is just a suspection, for now, I'm going to kick Dhumm's ass

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